In Which Caroline Organizes a Town Hall

[headcheerbleeder]

Who: Everyone
What: Caroline holds court and everyone hashes it out over how to organize.
Where: The Heartstone.
When: After the leadership post on the network.
Warnings/Notes: Conversations may get intense due to the baggage characters are bringing to any conversation about authority, particularly structural authority. Threadhopping is encouraged; my notifs are off and you can treat this like a network post, just with face-to-face interaction. The mods reserve the right to shut down threads or the post entirely if it gets out of hand.

Caroline and Stacia have, by now, made little portable deer-hide cushions for every person they've counted up in the camp, all fifty three. It's taken them a while, and in the meantime, Stacia was on the mirror network announcing her candidacy for leadership, and Caroline was in the background making little tutting and tch noises. This is why she doesn't do the internet.

Finally, she gets her own mirror out and makes an announcement, then arranges the little cushions for everyone in a wide, multi-tiered circle, staggered so everyone has a view towards the center, all at perfect fifteen degree angles to the one next to them. She sets six little campfires to ensure everything's well-lit. And she folds her arms and she waits.

Comments

[unsealthecatbox]

[It doesn't take long for Ange to arrive, although to be honest that's just because this seems like the sort of thing she should be aware of]

Aren't you all overthinking things a little? There's no way we're getting anywhere close to a result that'll make everyone happy. In the end we're all going to do our thing and listen to anyone foolish enough to take the leadership positions when we think it suits us or is convenient for us.

[Which is why she's largely content with letting things happen here without her chiming in much: she's not exactly going to follow orders mindlessly. She will cooperate, of course! And in battle she probably will heed others' advice and orders! But she hardly will see anyone as 'in charge' no matter the situation, really. To her, all this will just serve to stroke egos and make others get angry.

Still...she says all that aloud because she's pretty sure her opinion is shared by others. No way there's people here who think defining a leader will mean there won't be any problems in the future, there are too many people for such a thing]

[headcheerbleeder]

[Ange, meet the talking pillow. Caroline shoves it at Ange when Ange makes her statement, and she figures that Ange's right: who in God's name wants to be a leader in a group that's already shown itself to be hostile to command? She's probably the pushiest, more coordination-happy person she knows, and even she thinks that hot potato is rotten.

She keeps passing the talking pillow around.]

[konman]

[Kon hopes they don't need a conch for this...]

Alright, after talking to some people I get a little more where some of you are coming from.

Some of us come from places where formal leadership works because we're just lucky to enough to have real good people stepping up. Some of you come from places where you're unlucky enough that no one that steps up to power is ever decent. Or there was a whole power structure over your heads messing with you. It sounds like you distrust it because of bad experiences, or experiences shaping your beliefs.

That's understandable, and the people that want something really rigid will have to suck it up a little, make some concessions, and accept something looser. Because people can't cooperate if some of them are massively stressed out, like, all the time.

But if we sacrifice the L-word specifically during the crisis bits we probably can't sacrifice voluntary training and voluntary organization. People seem good about the camp organization part, like people have pointed out. But the training we definitely need to talk about. Even verbally telling each other what our powers are isn't going to be enough because this many people, used to not fighting or fighting different ways and different enemies? Are going to trip over each other's feet.

I've been on a team with 30 plus people before. The work we had to put in just to avoid friendly fire was insane. And a lot of them had been opt-in, and at it for years.

We also probably need to consider some pre-agreed on tactics where the group emergency plans ahead of time. Maybe picking people to always handle certain tasks - like, say, if someone has shield powers, they know if they see a wave of arrows or giant fireball, to step up without being asked or told, to shield the whole group from a big attack. Or "if we're pinned down, the first person that sees an exit directs everyone to it over the mirrors." Stuff like that.

Saying we're looking out for each other, and wanting to, doesn't mean people won't freeze up.

If people on one side need to sacrifice some rigidity, people on the other side have to accept at least a little order. From the sound of it I don't think some of you even disagree, but it still needs to be said and agreed on then.

[headcheerbleeder]

[No one needs a conch because Caroline brought a talking pillow, which she shoves at Kon's hands when he starts talking and then retrieves when he seems like he's done.

She continues to do this at everyone else who pipes up.]

[millenyal_pink]

[Elle was one of the first people who showed up. She's put herself in the middle of things, wanting to be in a position to help de-escalate things if necessary.

She decides that she should respond to Kon as a show of good faith. She motions to Caroline for the talking pillow and begins to speak, but doesn't stand. Her shoulders are set in determination, but she curled in on herself, slightly, out of nervousness. She's showcasing vulnerability, but her voice is calm and steady.]

I think having plans for emergency situations is a good idea. People can choose to be on civilian evacuation duty, or during combat healing, and the like. That way if we need something in the moment, we know who we can depend on.

Sparring together is also a good idea. I don't want to have to pick someone up and get them out of the way quickly and accidentally injure them because I underestimated my strength, or overestimated their ability to land safely. If we know each other better, we can trust each other more, and more formal organization will become less necessary as time goes on.

As long as we agree to no leadership positions and no formal power structures, I think we'll be okay. The biggest thing is that we can't afford to alienate each other. If there are conflicts, we settle them between individuals or as a group, but no one gets final judgement or to mete out punishment.

[Elle hesitates before her next words, a bit worried about how they'll come across. Will it seem like trying to control others to those who distrust anyone who takes charge? Will it seem like trying to manipulate situations to those who are used to established institutions? She's not sure, but she feels obligated to say it anyway.]

I've been working as a negotiator and diplomat for a few years, now. For those who aren't familiar, I come from a world where there are a lot of groups who may be somewhat ideologically aligned but they fail to work together without the situation devolving into fighting and bloodshed. I've worked with these different groups in order to find peaceful conclusions to what would otherwise be very violent encounters.

What I'm trying to say is that there's bound to be conflict in a group this size, especially with all of our varying backgrounds. I am offering to help mediate conflicts, or just to talk people through their struggles with others. I am well aware that no one here has a reason to trust me at my word, but I want to make the offer anyway. I genuinely want everyone to not only be safe, but to feel safe.

This is not a petition for a specific role in the community. I just want to help where I can.

[God, she always sounds so formal when she speak in this kind of setting. She hopes people don't think she's unapproachable, or an elitist asshole. Calm and formal is just her default with shit like this.]

[garmr]

Training was what I was plannin' on doing anyway.

[ This is the closest Guts gets to an open invitation. Was there a pillow? He's just jumping in. ]

Must've been a lifetime ago since I've done joint drills. Can't really avoid 'em with a group this big, though.

[wheyoftheadept]

[Saturday raises her hand when she wants the talking pillow. She's done this before. She's also a lot calmer, having gotten her swears out in private.]

In essence, I agree with you, an' with Elle. We gotta get organized, and we gotta learn to fight together, and we gotta have contingency plans that everyone knows an' can act on the next time the nightmare lobsters or god knows what else show up.

That bein' said, Elle is also completely right that it can't be formal and it can't have teeth. No police, no group punishments, no body of individuals elected or otherwise who get to decide where the line is and slap down anyone who doesn't toe it. That's not going to work. There's too many of us and we're all too different. Like even now - and please don't take this bad, I'm not comin' for ya, I'm givin' an example - you're still kinda phrasing it like you're doin' us a favor. Sayin' that we feel the way we do because we have bad experiences, so you're going to kindly not use 'the l-word' in front of us, so we're not stressed out. 'Cause we were just unlucky enough to be born into worlds that aren't like yours.

I've been to five different worlds so far, an' I've talked to people from a lot more. Worlds where all the leadership is good, decent, an' kind an' givin' 'em power always works out are the exception, not the rule.

The heart a' the conflict to me seems to be that sort of - rushin' in with our own assumptions an' not stoppin' to hear the other side, talkin' past each other on things that hurt. I don't think anyone here is a bad person, or a bad actor, or isn't basically in agreement about how to treat each other movin' forward. But right now I'm strugglin' t'figure how I can talk to you about how, well scared the entire conversation made me feel, 'cause I can't shake the feelin' you're not gonna take that fear seriously.

[she coughs, embarrassed by a display of emotion that isn't humour, hunger, or rage]

On a more practical note, if people're just havin' trouble figuring out how that kinda horizontal organization works, I can help there. We did this sorta thing back home.

[tr1xx]

[ Cammie’s mostly been hovering at the sidelines, crouched in her signature ‘bouncing on the balls of the feet, knees up’ posture, looking relaxed enough but absolutely ready to leave if this gets genuinely nasty. Christ, she hates these arguments. She wouldn’t be here if it didn’t seem important, and that’s the only reason she says anything at all. ]

I got basically nothin’ to contribute to most of this, ‘cause this really ain’t my game an’ I’m choosin’ to assume the lot of you are reasonable enough that this isn’t gonna end in something stupid bad.

But I do wanna chime in on what Kon’s said about trainin’ and figurin’ out what teamwork in the thick of it looks like for us. ‘Cause he’s right an’ I’m one of those people who’s gonna drag you all down if we don’t start helpin’ each other.

I’m a techie. I got no real wilderness skills an’ I kinda suck at fightin’ too. Or— I’m used to fightin’ a super specific way, like, robot body shite aside, the way my team an’ I communicate is with a thought. Like, literally, I always know what they’re thinkin’, what they’re gonna do next, when they’re gonna do it, how to help them.

So all this? Kinda different. Just— [ she pinches her fingers close ] Just a little.

An’ I’m sure I’m not the only one a little outta my depth.

Some of youse got people around ye familiar with, structures here ye familiar with, but some of us super don’t. All I wanna be sure of is none of those of us in that position are left out in the cold, an’ I personally dinnae wanna hold any of youse back by gettin’ underfoot, either.

So. Yeah. That’s my piece.

[millenyal_pink]

[Elle approaches Kon after people start to disperse. She needs to clear up a couple of things before she feel okay walking away from everything.]

I think the way you're advocating for you and your friends' needs is really admirable.

[That's where she starts. She wants to make it clear that she holds no ill will against Kon personally, in fact she thinks he's a pretty cool guy.]

[slowmotionbuscrash]

[ At some point, Tommy has gotten ahold of the talking pillow. God help you all, right? Wrong. ]

Yo, Caroline! How long do I gotta talk to keep the pillow? I don’t have one.

[headcheerbleeder]

You can have the pillow at the end of the town hall if you mind your manners and tell me how good my hair looks in this braid.

[See? Caroline can tease.]

[hourglasshalfempty]

[Raistlin arrives and seats himself, declining any offer of a talking pillow with a shake of his head. He's only here to observe]

[zerg_rush]

[Kerrigan doesn't want a pillow, to sit on or to hold, and she crouches beside Raistlin rather than sit.]

What's all this about?

[Guess who still refuses to deal with a magical mirror and thus missed the whole explosion?]

[garmr]

[ he's checking up on Raistlin, mainly because after you save each other from nightrenders it is the natural course of action. ]

Been wonderin' where you've went.

[hasapoint]

[Need had a massive attack of paranoia that while people were occupied Something Bad Would Happen. Also she and Tim were talking about passing her around so she could select the one true leader and while that's a fine joke she very much doesn't want anyone actually trying it. So she's arranged to be outside and leaning on a patchy network of animal senses and also Alloran, with whom she also has a giant off-screen argument that has her not following the meeting as closely as she might have. There's a mirror here that can feed her some cold sensory data, but even with his terrible eye distortion Need prefers just directly contacting Raistlin.]

:See any brawls yet?:

[She feels distracted. Even Need can only multitask so much.]

[ragefeathers]

So like. I'm used to structure. I like structure. Stucture has kept me alive for years and it's just, you know, like, good for me as a person, I guess. That's something I understand about myself. And I'm lucky--I got structure here. Stacia and Ace are both higher up in the werewolf world than me, so in a crisis, I go looking for them to get instructions.

[ She clears her throat, frowns. ]

And that's like, regardless of how the rest of this shakes out. No offense, but I don't take fuckin' marching orders from anyone but them, and they don't even like giving orders unless they have to.

[ Mackenzie waves a hand, then settles her hands on her hips. ]

But, like. I don't expect everyone else to listen to Stacia. I mean, they should, because she's smart and knows what the fuck she's doing but I understand if people don't. So I'm like... we can't make people have structure that they don't want. If a bunch of y'all superheroes or whatever want to organize a team to kill shit, that's your business. I'm not saying not to do that, especially if makes you feel better.

What I'm saying is you can't expect anyone to actually listen if they don't want to listen. Like, Saturday and Kon over there about concessions and shit. Framing people not wanting to do what you say as 'making concessions' just sounds weird to me.

It's like if I were to say that because I've seen my whole pack get fucking gunned down by vampires and seen what happens when the Wyrm is winning, that means I get to make some kind of demand that people listen to Stacia. Or like people NOT listening to Stacia is me making concessions, which is just... we're starting from no one listening to jack and shit. I dunno. I'm not smart. I just kill shit. I'm a soldier. A warrior. A weapon. Wind me up and point me at the bad guys.

[ Mackenzie mimes pointing a gun with her thumb and forefinger. Bang. ]

Having like, votes and shit to put specific people in charge or makin' ourselves into a little unit... I can see the usefulness there, but I don't want to be doing that alongside people who aren't interested in doing it.

[unsealthecatbox]

Ah. Someone with a way with words and good reasoning. That's kind of a breath of fresh air.

[More like someone who was more interested than Ange in putting into the right words the general opinion she also has, and has more charisma than Ange does. Still, Ange fully agrees, although of course, she can't say she has even a iota of the fighting skill Mackenzie does]

[circusbat]

Raistlin isn't the only one sticking to the edges of the group.

It's not that Dick doesn't have things to say. It's that, given the way so many people had reacted to the whole 'cop' thing (which, even in his own opinion, is absolutely fair but difficult to explain easily from his side), it's probably better to stand down and let some of the others do the arguing at the moment.

Kon's doing a good job, at least, which is why Dick takes a pillow at the far edge of the clearing, where Kon can see him and see that he has some support, at least. Though, of course, anybody is welcome to join him.

[hallelujahjunction]

Dan comes out of hiding after a while. He doesn't get too close to the Heartstone. His heart is still bruised, his ego chafed, even having spent some time commiserating with others. He's chewed his knuckles to shreds, and he's gone through half his flask, but he lurks around the edges, just out of firelight, until he finds who he's looking for.

But the worst thing for Dan is to sit around moping, and the second worst thing is to alienate someone he hasn't even met over what group they represent. He's been trying not to do that; it's a lifelong journey. Just like he said to Dean the other day about peacefully coexisting with Rowena, she isn't the one that hunted my family down. Dick hasn't done anything to Dan, not a single goddamn thing.

Punishing Dick for the crimes of others would be unfair. Letting Dick inaccurately believe that he doesn't have the basic respect of someone in the camp would be unfair. So Dan bundles up his old aches and sets them aside.

He has some of the dinner he and Guts and Saturday and Elle cooked together, smoked fish with wild mushrooms, garlic and onion, wrapped in wax paper in a basket Bunny wove. He approaches Dick as if he were just any random stranger. "You eaten yet?"

[cspd]

I think some worry about splinter groups is justified, but I think something else also bears mentioning in that context.

Respect is earned, nobody wants to follow someone they don't trust and respect. That much I believe everyone is agreed on. But -

[ Deep breath. ] We're going to have to reconcile that with the fact that we're not all coming in on even footing in that regard. There's a good chunk of people here who are already familiar with each other and have worked together. There are at least a couple of smaller cohorts of those who know each other from home. And there are some of us who are running solo and don't have that experience with anyone yet.

That, quite honestly, is pretty damned difficult to account for in any selection of leadership.

[ Haha. Bet you all thought the cop was going to be up here arguing about the need for a command structure, right? Nope, just here to observe that even voting on shit means there are potential voting blocs that can run ragged over the lone randos, so elections are also not particularly bueno. ]

[the_hit_list]

[ Tim’s a straight line behind Kon. He’s not comfortable in the group, but it’s mostly due to the recent onset of metahuman powers making him feel like he doesn’t belong in his own skin.

He’s as far away as his hearing will allow; if it’s possible to be out of the flickering light of the six campfires, he is. He’s alternating watching the edges of camp and watching Dick watch Kon.

During different parts of the conversation, he may be listening more keenly, or blank-faced and barely moving. He likely won’t involve himself in the main discussion, but will talk privately if anyone wants. ]

[ OOC: If approaching at a particular point in the main conversation, please let me know as it might effect his mood. There’s some sensitive points of his life being tossed around in the argument. ]

[wheyoftheadept]

[After her exchange with Kon, Saturday strides over to where Tim is sitting. She drops down in front of him, so as not to tower over him, and looks him straight in the eye]

I'm sorry I snapped at you. That wasn't the way to say what I wanted to say. My fear got the better of me, an' I took it out on you. It wasn't fair, it wasn't kind, and I'm gonna do better. That's all I got to say.

[And if Tim doesn't have a response, she gets back up and heads back to her pillow, closer to the fire]

[furtitude]

[Little Cato has been chilling there just eating the passed around food, lying on his stomach and drawing with some very large crayons in a crude sketch pad he found in a troll kid's room. He's been ignoring almost all the conversation because it's boring. He's only registered just enough that to know it's about how much leadering people want. He'd volunteer his dad but he knows his dad is stressed enough about leading the Team Squad back home, and they're a much smaller crew.]

[Now he has an Opinion.]

Okay, most of this has been suuuper boring and I haven't really been paying attention, but I think I have a solution:

Everyone should put me in charge.

[He holds up the picture he drew. The piece of paper is troll-sized so it's almost as big as a poster, making it easy for everyone to see. It's of him, standing on a giant throne made of what looks like swords and axes. He's screaming and swinging two axes. There's a giant fire behind the throne because flames are cool. Other people recognizable from the group like Elle are visible around him.]

[In the picture he's wearing spiky armor. Actually, it looks like they are all in fact armed with axes and wearing spiky armor. Guts, someone Little Cato has quietly admired from afar, is wielding a giant sword in one hand, an axe in the other hand, and an axe in his teeth.]

[It's all a touch heavy metal album cover. They are killing what looks like Nightrenders with the axes. You can tell because they're decapitated on the ground with little X's for eyes. His dad has the great honor of having two sword arms now and is decapitating four Nightrenders at the same time while looking like he's in the middle of screaming a Rambo-like scream.]

[He points to himself in the picture.]

That's me on my sword throne. [He adds helpfully:] It's made of swords. And that's everyone else fighting in my nightmare horde.

[He does not think they'd actually let him be leader, and his dad probably would also say no, but this situation seems tense and he knows it might get a laugh.]

[millenyal_pink]

[Elle moves over and gently scoops Little Cato up, sitting him on her shoulders.]

His royal highness deserves to be oversee his subjects!

[She says in an playfully deep voice.]

[okayimin]

[ Sawbones arrives fashionably late and clearly in the middle of another task entierly, if the large basket is any indication. She's there more to see what in the Stone is going on.

Being from a world where feudalism is Alive and Well, she's mostly just bemused by all the fuss. ]

[garmr]

[ While all the debate is going on, one of the giants has approached Sawbones for one very specific purpose. ]

Hey.

[ferengineer]

[Nog's still working his way through the inventory, but he puts it aside for the moment to put in his two cents.]

Before I start, I want to point out that I'm not suggesting we have a leader full time. Clearly most of you don't really want that and I'm not remotely invested enough in the idea to fight anyone on it. It's not really necessary anyways.

But, whether you like it or not, we do need one for combat. Someone wants us dead or captured badly enough that they did it almost as soon as we showed up. Another fight is pretty much inevitable at this point. And if we don't have someone directing us with a clear plan in place during it, we are going to lose. Badly.

That isn't opinion, and it's not just based on personal experience either. It's historical fact. 9.5 times out of 10 in a fight, it's the combatants who don't have a clear plan in place, or at the very least aren't following it, that lose.

[millenyal_pink]

[Oh boy. Elle takes a deep breath because this? This is the hard sell.]

You're not wrong, but that's anything close to that is going to take time and trust. Trying to force it would do more harm than good.

I propose we start group training. Basic self-defense and combat for inexperienced people, sparring for physical fighters, that kind of thing. As we learn each other's skills, we'll also be learning who we trust to guide us in an emergency. The people who have more experience and skill will get to share their knowledge, and we'll all start learning how to work together and create those kinds of plans as necessary.

[Elle is doing verbal gymnastics to avoid the l-word, or anything that implies anybody being in charge of others.]

Making Sure We're All Reading The Same Book

[millenyal_pink]

[Elle grabs The Pillow and stands up. All the hesitation or nervousness she previously displayed is gone. She stands confidently and makes eye contact as she starts to talk.

For those who are paying particularly close attention and have an especially keen eye, you can see the tips of her fingers trembling as she speaks. She displays no other outward signs of discomfort.]

Okay, since it seems like the bulk of conversation is wrapping up, I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. I'm going to go over some stuff that was discussed so we have a clear idea of what we're even here for. This is the stuff where it seems that we all agree:

We have some people who will not participate in any arbitrary authority, so having a designated leader or leaders is not going to work.

There are people who do want or need direction and structure. Those people are welcome to find it in a form that suits them, but doesn't extend past those relationships. Consensual power dynamics only, everybody.

It's natural for us to begin forming social groups. That shouldn't be a problem as long as everyone continues to work together, communicate, and share. We will continue to organize our work and resources on the mirrors the way we have been. [Elle nods to Kon and Nog.] Communal resources are for everyone, no exceptions.

There is a desire for group training. Whether that's for people who want to learn to hold their own, or for people who want to get familiar with the people they'll be fighting with, we can start organizing those on the mirror networks as well. Pipe up and try to schedule something. Chances are that you'll get a response.

We all have our private lives and secrets. No one needs to share those, but there has to be transparency with information when it comes to stuff that's happening in the here and now. Let's avoid keeping things to ourselves when they could effect other people.

A couple of people have volunteered to assist with conflict resolution if it comes to that. Those people are myself and Stacia. We are offering our skillsets publicly as a resource if people want it.

I think thats it for stuff we all generally agree upon for now. If I'm wrong and someone has concerns, please speak up.

This isn't the last tie we're going to be having one of these kinds of conversations, but they won't be particularly productive until we know each other and our situation better. I suggest we put effort into socializing where we can.

We're all freaked out and trying to find solid ground, but we're also working to meet each others needs, and that's really important. That's a good, solid foundation.

[Elle takes a breath.]

Anything I missed?

[Elle looks first to Caroline (she was taking minutes, after all), then Kon, Saturday, and the rest of the group. She briefly catches Dan's eye, hoping that he's doing as well as he can, given the circumstances. And maybe looking for approval, just the tiniest bit. Only a little.]

Re: Making Sure We're All Reading The Same Book

[credit_not_blame]

[Speaking of Stacia, she'd been hovering around the edges of the town hall at the beginning, but has since vanished. Now she reappears, Master Chief in tow. Given his concerns about leadership and such, she'd wanted to make sure he was involved, or could at least listen in on the discussion. Plus it's the least she could do, given when she'd kicked this particular bee hive.]

That sound good to you?

[She doesn't have the Talking Pillow (and isn't that a good idea on Caroline's part), so she keeps her voice low.]

[poor_unlucky_girl]

[Jennifer is ecstatic when she sees the cushions and the campfire.]

This is going to be so much fun! Like a sleepover!